Baring it All with Rose and Chrystal

Facing Breast Cancer: Ash’s Journey of Resilience and Advocacy

• Rose and Chrystal • Season 1 • Episode 15

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What happens when a determined special needs teacher from Western Australia faces the shocking reality of stage two invasive ductal carcinoma diagnosis at just 30 years old? Join us on Bearing it All with Rose and Crystal as we welcome Ash, who shares her powerful story of survival, resilience, and advocacy. Ash's unexpected discovery of a lump during a shower sets in motion a whirlwind of medical interventions and the beginning of her remarkable journey. Her collaboration with Pink Hope Australia underscores her dedication to spreading awareness and the critical importance of early detection.

Ash's journey through breast cancer treatment is nothing short of extraordinary. From the lumpectomy that successfully removed her cancer to enduring the gruelling effects of chemotherapy, Ash's unwavering determination to maintain her full-time teaching role during treatment is a testament to her incredible strength. This episode dives deep into her coping mechanisms, the life-saving role of counselling and workshops, and the severe physical toll chemotherapy took on her body, including severe bone aches and fatigue. Ash’s narrative highlights the importance of supportive services and sheds light on the emotional and physical challenges faced by those battling cancer.

Life after cancer treatment presents its own unique set of challenges, and Ash doesn't shy away from openly discussing her ongoing fears, survivor's guilt, and the heartbreak of losing loved ones to cancer. With the wisdom gained from her own experience, Ash emphasizes the necessity of strong support systems and the invaluable role friends and family play in offering both practical and emotional help. We close with Ash’s impassioned advice on the importance of regular self-examinations and proactive healthcare. Tune in to hear Ash's inspiring story and essential insights into maintaining breast health.

Breast Cancer Network Australia - Find services, government programs and support groups in your area.
Cancer Council - range of support services for all people affected by all cancers across every state and territory.
Cancer Chicks Australia is A community for young women who support and empower each other through their experiences with cancer.
Look Good Feel Better is a national cancer-support program that offers free in-person and online workshops and Confidence Kits to help people with any type of cancer manage the most common physical and psychological impacts of treatment. Providing practical tips and tools helps to connect a community of people living a shared experience and empowers them to regain control, confidence, and a sense of self.

Connect with Rose and Chrystal on Instagram for more stories and fun mini-weekly catch-ups.
DM the girls, get involved with the conversations, and feel free to ask questions!
@baringitall_thepodcast
Rose Oates
@roseoates_
Chrystal Russell
@chrystalrussell_

And don’t forget to take care of yourself and each other -

With Love Rose & Chrystal x


Chrystal :

Welcome back to another episode of Bearing it All with Rose and Crystal. Today we are honoured to have Ash with us. Ash is a 36-year-old special needs teacher from Western Australia who has an incredible story of resilience and advocacy. Ash is a breast cancer survivor who bravely underwent four months of chemotherapy and radiation treatment. Not only did Ash conquer this personal battle, but they also turned their experience into a mission, working with Pink Hope Australia to spread the message about importance of early detection. Ash, welcome to Bearing it All.

Rose Oates:

Welcome Ash to the pod. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you so much.

Chrystal :

Ash is actually one of Halo's clients and she's become a little regular at the salon, yep, and over the time at Halo, ash has shared a bit of her story, and it's actually a story that we all need to hear, I feel, yep. So I think let's just get into it, like, tell us a bit about you, what you do, what you went through.

Ash :

So I was diagnosed. I'm 36, I was diagnosed at 30. And it was a really strange lead up to the diagnosis because I was going crazy on a diet because I wanted to lose weight for my friend's wedding and I think because of that and I did lose weight, so yay me. But because of that I felt a lump when I was having a shower.

Chrystal :

So the cancer diagnosis was breast cancer.

Ash :

Yeah, so it was stage two invasive ductal carcinoma and it was an estrogen positive, so it was triggered by estrogen. Mind you, when my GP told me all these words, I had no idea what she was saying.

Rose Oates:

Can I go back to the lump though? Yes, Now you're in the shower. When my GP told me all these words, I had no idea what she was saying Can I go back to the lump though?

Ash :

Yes.

Rose Oates:

Now you're in the shower and you feel this lump. But what did it actually feel like? What made you even go? Oh, that doesn't feel right.

Ash :

So the best way for me to describe it was like you have your AirPods case, right yeah, and it was like half the size of an AirPod case. Oh, and it was like half the size of an AirPod case, and it was hard, that's quite big and I was like that's not normal, that is not normal at all.

Ash :

Yeah, so I got out of the shower, called my cousin, who's a surgeon, over in New South Wales, and I just asked her what do I do? Because, back story, she's also been through breast cancer herself. Okay, and I told her this is what I feel, I don't know, I have no idea what do I do. And she's like all right, let's just, you know, don't panic, just get yourself a GP appointment, let them know of the history that you've got and if they sort of dismiss you, push for an ultrasound. So I met the next day. I made an appointment, surprisingly, got an 8 am appointment at the GP and when I spoke to the lady, thankfully the GP that I was seeing was like okay, you know what, let's just send you for an ultrasound. Yeah, I love that. And everything sort of fell into place because I got an ultrasound appointment for 8.45.

Chrystal :

On the same day.

Ash :

On the same day, that is like never happens, never yeah, never Okay 8.45 the same day at St John of God, Subie and I went to the GP just near Woolies, so I just walked over. I walked over, I went for the ultrasound and in the ultrasound room the radiologist was like oh yeah, I see something there. I'm going to just get the doctor to come in. Oh God, I feel like that is never a good thing right Any pauses when they just hover, exactly.

Ash :

And so at that point it felt like a lump in my stomach.

Rose Oates:

Yeah, were you on your own as well.

Ash :

I was.

Chrystal :

I was on my own. I live in.

Ash :

Australia on my own. My parents are all in Malaysia, my family's all in Malaysia, and so I felt it was like what the hell? So the doctor came in and said look, there is something there, and just to be safe, I want to do a biopsy and I'm going to send you for a mammogram as well. I was 30. I'd never had a mammogram before.

Chrystal :

But they don't do mammograms at 30. What's the age for a mammogram?

Rose Oates:

I think, it's like 40. But I think that's even lifted.

Ash :

I think it used to be 50. Yeah, so now it's 40. So I was like, okay, cool, yep, let's do this. I had never had a biopsy in my life before, and when I saw that needle I was like what? Yeah, it's huge right, the living hell is this, and that's when I was like, oh crap.

Rose Oates:

So it hadn't really dawned on you until you saw like you went in for the biopsy.

Chrystal :

Really Wait. How long after the ultrasound was the biopsy?

Ash :

So the ultrasound, I think, finally finished around 10. The ultrasound they sent me straight to mammogram and then they scheduled me for a biopsy the same day.

Chrystal :

What- the actual heck. I feel like this doesn't ever happen, right? People wait weeks for this kind of thing.

Ash :

It did happen really fast. Everything happened very, very fast. So I saw the GP went to get the ultrasound, ultrasound turned into mammogram and then the biopsy was, I think about like three hours later.

Chrystal :

Wow, a lot of women feel a lump and they don't know what it is for months because, of the process.

Rose Oates:

Yep.

Chrystal :

Somebody was looking out for you that day. Yes, yes.

Rose Oates:

Wow 100%.

Ash :

So everything happened and I got my results in two days.

Chrystal :

But also, you didn't have time to process, right? You just felt a lump. Then you're there, then you're having a biopsy. It's like you can't it happened all in three days?

Rose Oates:

Oh God, yes.

Ash :

Basically, you didn't from lump. Three days later you find out you have breast cancer. Yeah, oh my God, it was insane. So that day I had all the appointments, one of like the scans, one after another. I got home and then I was talking to my mum and dad on FaceTime and my mum was like, nah, that's it, we're just coming. So my parents, my sister, my brother-in-law and my cousin flew over the next morning. They were there the next morning, which was good. So that was, I had all the scans on the Wednesday, on Thursday morning. They flew in Friday. We got the, so you weren't alone.

Chrystal :

So when they came, they didn't know you had breast cancer yet. No, oh shit, and they flew just in case. Do you think they thought it was?

Ash :

So what my dad said was I need a holiday anyway. No, my cousin said that she was like I need a holiday anyway. So if it's not, we'll just go do stuff.

Chrystal :

Oh OK.

Ash :

If it's not, it's a holiday. If it is, we're there for you. Oh my gosh, that's beautiful.

Ash :

Yeah, so we did that. And then on Friday, did you go in for your diagnosis? I did. There was a little kerfuffle. That happened there and when I look back on it it now I'm like God damn it. I should have sued the place. But what happened? Was I called? So my appointment was meant to be for, I think, 2pm.

Ash :

I called at 12pm to find out if my results were in yet, and what happened was the SKG had misspelt my surname, which is a common mistake, that can happen but they misspelt my. They had the correct surname for my surname, which is a common mistake, that can happen but they misspelled my. They had the correct surname for my ultrasound, but they misspelled my biopsy. So when the results got sent to the GP clinic, my biopsy wasn't put into my file because the name was spelled wrong. So the nurse practitioner who was there clicked open on my file, saw the ultrasound results and said oh, everything's fine because you can't really see anything from the ultrasound. And so I was like well, there is a lump, I need to know if I need to take it out. Blah, blah, blah. And she was like well, if you want to come in at two o'clock, you can. It's entirely up to you. I was like, yeah, no, I'll still go, imagine if you didn't.

Ash :

I went, my sister came with me and we sat there and so you're a little bit relieved at this point in some ways. Yeah, because I was like that's, you know, it's not cancer, I'm fine, we just got to work out what it is. Yes. So we sat there and I looked and the GP looked at me and she said Ash, I don't have your results yet. And I'm like well, what do you mean? Because your nurse practitioner said everything was fine and she's like what does she mean? I was like I don't know. So anyway, on the spot she calls the place up and works out that my name was spelled wrong. So she said the biopsy's in, I'm going to open it now Opened it. She looked at it, looked at me and said I'm so sorry, it's stage two breast cancer.

Chrystal :

And I just sat there and I was like could you say anything? Did you go numb?

Ash :

What was your reaction? I think like everything in me just died and then I fell into my sister's arms. That's as much as I remember from being in the room with the doctor. Everything went numb, it died, and then I fell into my sister's arms and I was crying and my brother-in-law, who was in the room as well, was frantically searching which oncologist and breast surgeon to get a referral for.

Rose Oates:

So they were sort of like managing the situation for you to start the proceed, like get everything moving, yeah.

Ash :

So we got we got the oncologist and breast surgeon referral and we went home. It was a Friday afternoon. We went home. I spent pretty much the entire day and night after that on the kitchen floor, the bathroom floor, and I was in tears because I was like what do I do? Age?

Chrystal :

30, that's so young to be given that kind of diagnosis, and that's exactly what I was thinking.

Ash :

I was like this is not possible. I'm 30. Like who gets breast cancer at 30, man, come on, yeah, that's really young, and that's already at stage two. Yeah, it was at stage two already and I was like this no words. But the good thing is, everything moved. I don't know if there's a good thing about cancer, but what I'm grateful for is that everything moved really quick. So I got an appointment with my breast surgeon for Monday morning.

Chrystal :

And you got the diagnosis on Friday. Yeah Wow, you were lucky man. Everything just was.

Ash :

Everything moved so quickly for me. So I went in, saw my breast surgeon. She's a bloody brilliant woman. She looked at me. She explained everything because all I knew was that it was stage two breast cancer. At that point I had no like they didn't tell me any specifics, nothing. She, my breast surgeon, explained the whole thing to me. Okay, she drew little boobies, she put little signs, she drew arrows, told me exactly what it would look like, taught me through what we could do. What were your options? So my options were we were going to do a lumpectomy, okay. And the other option was so before the lumpectomy, I needed to do sorry, no, raise that, it was a lumpectomy. That was the first option.

Chrystal :

So that's just pretty much removing the cancer as well. Yes, the actual lump.

Ash :

So after the lumpectomy, which was scheduled for three weeks from the first time I saw her, I had the lumpectomy, it went off to get checked and everything and what they found out was they managed to remove the entire thing. However, there were markers in my lymph nodes. It was the tiniest one, it was like 0.03 or 0.05, something like that. And when we went to see my oncologist she was like look, four rounds of chemotherapy will just kill it all. Whatever's there, whatever's left, will just die. At that point I think the first thing I thought about was I don't want to do chemotherapy because you hear about all the horror stories. You hear about the horror stories you hear about losing your hair, you hear about being so sick from it. And I told my mom I was like I can't do this. I don't have it in me to put myself through that.

Chrystal :

But the option is right If you don't do chemotherapy what happens? Like do you, can you die?

Ash :

like what I would. I wouldn't be able to tell you if I was gonna die, because they did take it out. Yeah, but, yeah, but there was still that mark over there which that could then spread right correct so especially when it's in your lymph nodes yes

Ash :

that more of a yes, yeah, it is, it is absolutely and it spreads quicker as well once it's in your lymph nodes. So we did four rounds of chemotherapy, which I started, I think, a week and a half, two weeks later. So what made you decide to? Do, chemo then I think at that point it was just I got to do it. I got, I have no choice. I've got to do this to keep myself alive and I was not ready to die yet.

Rose Oates:

Is there any counselling or anything they give you in preparation for any of this? Or during it, I can't speak for the public system.

Ash :

So I did all my treatment and surgeries and everything in private. And there is a centre, so I did it at the Cancer Comprehensive Centre in Subi and there is a space attached to the centre where you can go and they give you counselling. There's like Reiki healing, there's yoga, there's all these things. There's also I'm trying to remember the name of the programme Look Better, Feel Better. I think it might be where they teach you how to do your eyebrows, how to do your makeup, how to style your little turban thing for your head and all those stuff. That's actually really cool. Yeah, they do a lot and they teach you a lot. The only part about that is that I didn't access it because, being the stubborn human being I was, I decided that I was still going to work full time.

Chrystal :

While going through chemo.

Rose Oates:

Yeah, and did you. How did that work out for you, ash, I did, oh my God.

Ash :

You animal. I did so. I took four days after chemotherapy off. I had chemo on a Thursday every three off. I had chemo on a Thursday every three weeks. I had chemo on a Thursday. I'd take Friday and Monday off and then I'd be back in school.

Rose Oates:

And you were working with special needs teacher full time. Correct, you are amazing.

Ash :

So what I told myself was that, like there are so many other people who do it, and I was like, if other people can do it, I can do it as well.

Chrystal :

Did you get like?

Ash :

vomiting and stuff, though I was very nauseous but I never threw up. The bone aches are crazy. So 24 hours after you have your chemotherapy round, 24 hours after you have your chemotherapy round, you get given this injection that is supposed to trigger white blood cell counts and supposedly also gives you swollen bones. I never knew bones could be swollen.

Chrystal :

I still don't know if that's a thing I didn't know. Bones could be swollen.

Ash :

I didn't know, but my body. I could not sit, I could not lie down, I could not stand. I could not lie down, I could not stand. I couldn't do anything Like walking to the front door in my two bedroom apartment was taking my breath away.

Chrystal :

Whoa, because it was so painful, your bones were just aching yeah.

Ash :

I could feel every single spring on my mattress.

Rose Oates:

Wow, I swear I could feel it all.

Ash :

And then I decided, no, I'm chucking this mattress out. I bought myself an Ecosa mattress. There you go, guys.

Rose Oates:

Is it good? Yes, so if anyone's listening and want to know what those online mattresses are like, Ash has the goods.

Ash :

I was like that's it, this mattress is going to the bin and I bought myself an Ecosa mattress and it was the best thing I did for myself. Yeah, the best 700, and whatever dollars I spent that week. Ecosa, if you want to sponsor us, yes, ecosa, I do need another king size mattress. Thank you very much.

Rose Oates:

Moving forward from that. Did you actually lose your hair? I know the answer to this, but I would love you to talk us through the process, because it's not an easy thing Like women, we love our hair. Crystal owns a salon that specializes in hair extensions. Another plug there, guys.

Chrystal :

But we actually on a day to day see a lot of women that are either going through chemo, have gone through chemo, have hair thinning, have lost their hair.

Rose Oates:

Have lost their hair yeah, it's very Such an identity, correct, like so tied to our identity.

Chrystal :

Even myself.

Rose Oates:

Yeah, like cutting my hair off. You know how I felt about it. I needed to cut it off, like I had a Britney moment and then I needed it back to feel like myself. So can you tell us about it?

Ash :

So I did what they call cold capping and that was in hopes of preserving my hair and lessening the process of falling, of losing my hair. Basically, cold capping is exactly what its name is. They put this cap on your head. It is so tight and it is so cold.

Chrystal :

It's like a freezer in your head. It's like an ice bath on your head, yeah correct.

Ash :

Yeah, and it's hooked up to a device that's about that big and if you do co-capping you've got to sit there two hours before and two hours after your chemo infusion, because it needs to start two hours before and then your chemo goes in and your cells are still like frozen, basically for two hours after. It gives you the worst headache in the world. It is so painful. I did it the first time and then I said screw this.

Chrystal :

Yeah, I couldn't.

Ash :

So it was supposed to lessen the hair fall, so I did it. Chemo number one Exactly 10 days after chemo number one, my hair was starting to fall.

Rose Oates:

When you say it was falling. How is it coming out Like when you?

Ash :

brush. So if you don't brush your hair? Okay, okay, because that will. That will make it come out more. That's so. Even if I were to just like run my fingers through, I'd have a clump in my hand. It's clumpy, yeah. So it was falling out in clumps and I was like, okay, I wasn't ready to shave my hair just yet, yeah and that. So I think it was the 10th day at night I was. I was seeing a guy at that point and he shaved my hair.

Chrystal :

Just a guy that you just started seeing. You were like hey, shave my head. You asked him to shave your head. Well, we.

Ash :

I was really. I was really self-conscious about my hair falling and so I didn't take off. I had a beanie on and I didn't want to take my beanie off because I knew there would be hair inside. And he was like why did I just shave it for you?

Chrystal :

And I was like oh my God, that is like a lot for a new guy to take on that responsibility.

Rose Oates:

How long were you seeing this guy?

Ash :

I was seeing him for about approximately five six months Before or during During Just Approximately five six months Before or during During. Just when, when you found out. Just when I was diagnosed. I was actually talking to him. I met him on Bumble. I was talking to him just before I got diagnosed and we were supposed to meet up and I said, look, I'm really sorry this has happened. Why did I say sorry?

Rose Oates:

Yeah, I agree, I was like you don't need to be sorry. No, I agree, I was like you don't need to be sorry.

Ash :

No, I didn't need to be sorry. But like at that point, yeah, exactly. And after my surgery he started messaging me again and was like you know, I really want to see you. Can we please go out? Blah, blah, blah. And so we did, and he's just stuck around.

Chrystal :

Wait a minute. We need to just go back a little tiny bit, because I remember this part of the story.

Ash :

Yeah.

Chrystal :

Where you were dating a douchey.

Rose Oates:

Is this the douchey? Is this the douchey?

Ash :

This is said douchey. Oh, this is juicy Ash. This is said narcissistic, asshole.

Chrystal :

So hold on a minute. So this was your previous relationship yeah. Tell me the story.

Ash :

So he stuck around, which, when you think about it, you're like why you stuck around at the hardest part of my life, but he chose it too.

Rose Oates:

Yes, like he knew exactly what he was getting into.

Ash :

Yeah, he knew exactly what he was getting into and then, as soon as I finished active treatment, he left.

Rose Oates:

Okay, before we get on with this story, because me and you have talked about this I think it's so important that Ash talks about this, because so many people assume that when you're going through cancer or something traumatic, that you've got such a supportive network, you've got such a supportive husband or partner, and no one really talks about what if you don't Like, a lot of your family and friends were in Malaysia. Yep, you had a small network here in Perth, is that correct? And you're going out with a narcissist, ash, please, continue.

Ash :

Tell us To be fair, I didn't know he was a narcissist at that point. The good part with me is that my mom came over and spent three months with me. So the plan was that she would spend the entire three months and then my dad, my sister, my brother-in-law, my cousins, were all flying in and out from Malaysia. Okay, amazing, yeah. So they were all in and out like every three weeks, yep, so that there would always be someone to support mum with what she had.

Chrystal :

Because she was my main carer. That's a lot in itself. That is a lot, and you're actually extremely lucky to have them because, I know many people that I don't even know if somebody in my life would even fly for me. But that's why it's so important.

Rose Oates:

Like not everyone's got the like you had to have that family network doing all of that Correct. But then having a newish relationship with someone that maybe didn't have the right intentions or it was very it's a real please.

Ash :

It was. It was very interesting because there was a point where most of my close friends had met him, and I don't think any of my close friends liked him, were they like Ash Red Flag? Yes, oh God.

Rose Oates:

But do you know?

Ash :

there's actually a but did I see the Red Flag no.

Rose Oates:

No, no one, we don't. I was too busy.

Ash :

I was like I'm fighting for my life.

Chrystal :

There's actually people out there, though, that they attach themselves to people who have illnesses Correct, and it's like I don't know what the name of it is Like a God complex.

Rose Oates:

I want to save them.

Chrystal :

Yes, no, it's not even about saving, it's the attention that they something Poor me almost yeah it's actually a thing Like there's actually parents that have got it from their child.

Ash :

Yeah.

Chrystal :

Like.

Ash :

So that was that. It was when everything ended. It was heartbreaking and I was severely broken. But now, when I look back at it, I just tell myself, like look, it was a bullet, a massive bullet that I dodged. This guy was a massive narcissist, and I'm, he was, you know. He was there for the four months, five months that he served his purpose and it was done, yeah.

Chrystal :

Was he supportive during that time or like was he causing you more anguish than he was doing anything good?

Ash :

Look, I've got to say throughout the time it was fine, he really served his purpose. Yeah, he kept me happy and that's it. But as soon as active treatment ended, he was out, which for me was like why would you stay through the most crucial part and then go? And it was. I was broken. I was so, so broken that the first thing I could do is take an Uber up to my friend's place in Kalamanda. That the first thing I could do was take an Uber up to my friend's place in Kalamunda and her and her husband gave me one and a half sleeping pills that put me to sleep for 17 hours. Wow, you needed it. It was the best 17 hours of my life.

Rose Oates:

Yeah, I slept. It was like almost you needed to sleep off everything for a bit. Yeah, like your mind and your body were exhausted.

Ash :

Yeah 100%.

Chrystal :

I'd like a 17-hour sleep right now. Thank you.

Rose Oates:

I'd like a five-hour uninterrupted sleep. I am so uncomfortable in my neck and my back. I feel bad, complaining.

Ash :

It's okay, tell me. Oh, my God, you're pain.

Rose Oates:

But it's just wild, the whole story. I mean, we're so lucky and happy that you are here now, six years on. But back to early detection, which is what you really advocate for and what we had had a discussion about as well. So not that long ago, I had a lump I go to touch it immediately in my right breast, which actually I'm going to laugh, though turned out to be mastitis. I haven't breastfed for two years, guys, just letting you know that it can fucking happen. But I shared that online and just really because I do the bathroom chats and I'll be in my bras and undies and I felt it that night, so I just brought it up. I said, oh, I've got to get it checked, blah, blah, blah. And the amount of feedback to say don't worry about it, it's normal to have lumps in your boob.

Rose Oates:

Oh, it's probably nothing. If I probably would have listened to that, I may not have done anything about it and Probably would have listened to that. Yeah, I may not have done anything about it. Yeah, and to be honest with you, I can be quite lazy when it comes to my health. Yeah, don't judge me, but for me obviously, like being mastitis, I started having a rash.

Chrystal :

Yeah.

Rose Oates:

So no pain at the time, but the rash and I was like, oh God, that's another sign.

Chrystal :

Yeah, I'm nearly 40.

Rose Oates:

I'm nearly 40. I'm 39 years old, haven't breastfed for two years. That was my second red flag. I did go to the doctor straightaway. I had an ultrasound, turned out to be obviously nothing sinister, but your mind does go to the gutter, especially as you get older. Correct, and it was really surprising to me and why I think it's so important to talk about early detection and to just, if in doubt, check it out. Yeah, because so many people are like don't worry about it.

Ash :

Yeah, I'm like worry about it, girls, worry about it.

Rose Oates:

Worry about it you also told me a story that you shared a lot of your journey along the way through different social platforms and et cetera, and was it your friend?

Ash :

Yeah, so it was my schoolmate, who coincidentally lives just so my parents live in an apartment block and she was on the ground floor, yeah, and she sent me a message and said oh you know, thanks for sharing your story. I've had these lumps in my breast and I'm just going to go get it checked out, but she was breastfeeding, so in my head even I was like, oh, it's probably mastitis, it's probably mastitis yeah probably like clogged ducts, which which is what she thought it was as well do not tell me it was?

Ash :

it was breast cancer, yeah, and what stage was it? It was, I believe, either stage one or zero, so she didn't need chemotherapy. She had a mastectomy I on both sides, or maybe one side, and she's on estrogen treatment now Okay, so are you on any treatments?

Ash :

I am, so I take because the cancer was estrogen positive, which means it was triggered by all the estrogen in my body. I am on what they call tamoxifen, so I used to be on an estrozole and Zolidex. Zolidex is a monthly injection to sort of preserve your ovaries and stop the activity, but the Zolidex needle is like it's a dinosaur.

Rose Oates:

The way you're doing it. It looks like as thick as a straw?

Ash :

No, it's a massive needle. So what does that do?

Rose Oates:

Suppress your estrogen a bit.

Ash :

It suppresses your ovaries. So the anestrosol suppresses your estrogen production from everywhere else in your body, okay, and the Zolidex suppresses the ovaries.

Chrystal :

So that makes you not be able to fall pregnant? Correct, okay, yeah.

Rose Oates:

Okay, yeah, okay. So what if you want to become pregnant? Like, do you want to have a?

Ash :

family. I do. I do so fast forward all these years. I met the most amazing man. We do want to hear about him, yes, so.

Rose Oates:

Who was too short for you? Apparently Ash. And by the way, if you can't see, Ash, she's not exactly a tall woman. No, I'm like 4'9". Oh shit, so realistically, any man would be taller than you. But continue, Tell us about your amazing partner.

Ash :

So we met on Hinge. It was really funny, but I had to go in for a septoplasty and sinus surgery because my sinuses were so fucked. And then I was in the hospital and because it was COVID you couldn't have any visitors. And so I was like, oh, screw it, I'm going to like download Hinge. Okay, at that point she was hospital boredom. At that point I was off men because I was like, screw y'all.

Ash :

So I downloaded Hinge and um, and then I got a message from this guy and I was like, oh yeah, I was also very, very high on like and I started messaging him. And then I just didn't think anything of it. And I started messaging him and then I just didn't think anything of it. And the next day he texted me again. And then a week later we were still texting and he was on site because he's a FIFO person, and I thought, nah, like, I bet you, this guy isn't real. So I actually suggested that we had a FaceTime call because I needed to know that he wasn't a robot. The ash wasn't there. I FaceTimed with him. I don't have you ever had a septoplasty surgery before?

Chrystal :

for your sinus no.

Ash :

I need to have it done, but so you get like you've got this like bandage on your nose and you suggested a FaceTime and it's like attached to your face and there's like blood coming out and you FaceTimed him that day.

Rose Oates:

Were you still high? No, I wasn't. You were sane.

Ash :

I was. I was very sane. But then he answered the phone and I was like oh great, you're not a robot. Did he ask what the hell was happening to your face? He knew that I had this surgery, but then after that, and he was having an extended swing, which is why everything was like. I was like, oh, would you like to go off coffee? And he's like, oh, I'm having an extended swing.

Chrystal :

And you're like sure you are. This guy is a robot.

Ash :

But then after that we started talking more and my friends laugh. They crack up at this and we talked about it on the weekend as well. But after you have a septoplasty surgery, you have to rinse your sinuses every four hours and the gunk that comes out of your nose it's like I don't even know.

Chrystal :

Maybe don't discuss it. I've got a week coming.

Ash :

Well, I took a photo and sent it to him. What?

Rose Oates:

What happened. I would gag. You know what, though? At this point, ash is like I've been through the worst I could ever be. Yes, exactly If, at this point, ash is like I've been through the worst I could ever be Like, if this guy can't handle me, then I.

Ash :

You know what's the worst that could happen. I sent him a photo and I was like, hey, look, what should I name this guy?

Rose Oates:

Oh my God, I sent him a photo of a booger, basically.

Ash :

Yeah, it wasn't just a booger, it was disgusting. I've got a weak stomach, All right. Well, I'll stop there. So anyway, this is when I was like all right, this guy is actually quite funny because he hasn't stopped talking to me, right.

Chrystal :

Were you trying to push him away? If somebody sent me their snot, I would run for the hills.

Rose Oates:

It's like the first week and the first time you ever see this woman. She's wearing a nose plaster around her ears and the thing is as well like Ash told me as well while we were just sitting at the salon like you had even put on your profile.

Ash :

Yeah, it was on my profile that I was a breast cancer survivor.

Rose Oates:

Because she didn't want to make things awkward.

Chrystal :

Yeah, because that's another thing you don't think of you didn't want to bring it up to people.

Ash :

Yeah, and it was one of my really good friends at work because I was talking to her and I was like you know, kaz, what am I supposed to do Like when? At what point do I bring it up with a person, like at the first date, at the fourth date?

Rose Oates:

Yeah, and she was like well, just, put it on your profile yeah, just get it out there, really like it's just freeing, isn't it? Yeah was there a photo of?

Ash :

you bald on daily mail. Yes, daily mail did a like a whole thing, daily mail.

Rose Oates:

Well, I also want to share a photo of ash bald. She's actually the cutest egg you've ever seen.

Ash :

Oh, my god, I had such a egg head it was so smooth yes, it was. Yeah, yeah, it was insane, because everything falls off, even the tiniest bit.

Chrystal :

Yeah you lose your eyebrows and your eyelashes yes, you do.

Ash :

Oh my god, I was trying to hold on to my eyelashes and then when the last one fell, I was like I'm gonna fucking make a wish on that. Um, so my eyebrows. I lost most of it, but the best advice that I got that I would like that I pass on to anyone who speaks to me who has gone through breast cancer or is going through chemotherapy is go get your eyebrows tattooed Before they come out, because then they've got the shape Question I'm asking for a friend Does your chin hair and lip hair fall out?

Ash :

Everything Fuck, even your chin, oh yes.

Chrystal :

Even your chin, Everything. She was naked. I mean no your gin, everything.

Rose Oates:

She was naked. I mean no, I can't say oh, you were bald, you were.

Chrystal :

I was like proper bald. Yeah, because like you shave and you miss parts she was actually like a dolphin, correct?

Rose Oates:

Silky, I mean that was like not perks of the head, but yeah. Yeah, everything and regrowth was very interesting because even now, like are you just fluffy and soft, how does it grow?

Chrystal :

back. Does it go back, not in like, does it grow back fully in patches? How does it work patches?

Ash :

like, and even that, like my leg hair doesn't grow for about a good three, four months.

Rose Oates:

I don't want to talk to you right now. Yeah, I'm really sorry. No, that's fine, I would never. I would never. But with your hair, though, hair is different for everyone, so we know somebody that when her hair came back, it was so curly and wild. Yes, and almost a different colour. Yeah, some people come back grey.

Ash :

Yeah, and yourself.

Rose Oates:

How have you found it?

Ash :

So mine grew back wavy.

Rose Oates:

But very, very thin, so it's not regained its thickness.

Ash :

No, definitely lost all volume, like I used to have proper brown person thick hair.

Rose Oates:

Yep Brown person thick hair. I do know what you mean. I'm going to bring up something, though.

Chrystal :

So if anyone's ever had hair extensions you would know that extensions do have the ability to have some shedding and I remember the first time Ash ever got extensions it actually triggered some of her emotion from losing hair because of the hair extensions. Obviously you notice it more when you've got extensions, like if they shed a bit, like you notice it and it was triggering like emotion to you, it was, it was, it was, and then I remember you being like Crystal, like it's actually triggering me, it's upsetting me and I was like what?

Ash :

can I do? I was like I need more. What do you?

Rose Oates:

want me to do Like. I love that you brought that up.

Ash :

Yeah.

Rose Oates:

I forgot about that. People think about okay, she's married, it's done. Yes, guys.

Ash :

I got married to that amazing man. She got married to that not-so-tall.

Rose Oates:

Is he a bald man? Yes, hey there, but no one talks about after cancer. No, like you, don't hear as much, especially someone that hasn't. We haven't been through it, luckily, or anything like that. I don't know someone super close but in the sense of like I didn't know you had to be on treatment that does all of that and even the hair loss things that are triggering you. Are you still scared sometimes of it coming back Every day?

Ash :

Every day. It's something that you learn to live with the fear. It's something that you learn to live with the fear, but, at the same time, how I got myself through it was that it's always going to be at the back of my mind. I'm always going to be, because there's always the chance of it reoccurring.

Rose Oates:

Yes.

Ash :

But I can't stop living life because of that fear.

Ash :

Yeah, I love that and that's what keeps me going every day is that I've you know, there are a lot of people that have not been able to go on, and that's a whole other thing, because and I never used to like obviously you don't know about this because you don't have cancer but whenever I heard about people like I lost two of my uncles to cancer after I got diagnosed, and then I heard about people like that, I knew who was passing from cancer and I started feeling very guilty.

Chrystal :

Surviving, yeah, and I never knew that survivor's guilt was a thing, but I started feeling very guilty.

Ash :

Survivor's guilt, yeah, and I never knew that survivor's guilt was a thing. But I started feeling really guilty because I'm like, well, they fought as hard as I did, but why did they have to die? Yeah. But then you start living with all of that and you start going well, it was their time, so that was that. And you just remind yourself that you've had that second chance and you, you don't waste it. Yeah, you bloody, live it.

Rose Oates:

You live differently now that you've had that brush with death. Like you see the world differently.

Chrystal :

Yes, I remember you talking about something, though, that actually made me want to cry yeah, and it was that after your diagnosis, you went through a time where you're thinking I can't.

Ash :

I can't do this. I will pinpoint it straight down to. It was right after my second chemotherapy and I was sitting on my couch and right outside my apartment was the City West train station and my mom had gone out because I sent her out with my auntie just to take a breath. And I remember sitting there and I thought if I just walked through the tracks and got hit, that would be easier for everyone and I wouldn't have to do. I wouldn't have to do chemotherapy anymore because chemotherapy is the single most brutal thing I have ever done in my life. It is painful, it is tiring, it takes so much of your.

Ash :

It takes so much in you to just to just move, to like move one finger, um, and yeah, after the second one I was, you know, even though I kept telling myself I was like you know, I'm already at the halfway point, there's just two more to go, let's do this. But there was still that bit in me that was like I can't do this anymore. Done, yeah.

Chrystal :

I felt like you were done. You felt like you were done.

Ash :

Yeah, truly felt like I was done, but then I think what really got me like sort of past that, or just made me push myself even more, was the fact that, you know, I had my family around. I had my cousins and my sister and my brother-in-law, my dad, like flying in and out. The second I got diagnosed, my sister started a group chat with all my cousins and they had a timetable Excel spreadsheet with who was coming in.

Ash :

Like who was going to come in? I think it was through. Was it through this? Just after the first chemo, my younger cousin, brother, flew in and he was like I don't know how I can help you, but I'm here. I'm here and just tell me what you want me to do. So he was driving me to and from school every day. He was driving me to and from school and, like I lived in City West and I worked in Armadale at that point, oh my.

Rose Oates:

God. So it's just the little things.

Ash :

Yeah, it's the little things.

Rose Oates:

And so like, with friends and family and even friends that you had in Perth already. What is some advice that you would feel like you know you would like to give people that are helping or supporting somebody with cancer or going through something that you went through, because I think sometimes we feel weird.

Chrystal :

Like what do we do?

Rose Oates:

How do we help? How do we speak to them? What do we say?

Ash :

Don't treat people like they're broken, because they're not. They're not broken, so don't you know? Don't be like I'm so sorry, like we don't need your sympathy. Just be normal with me, be normal, be as normal as possible. But it's the small things that count, like I had my friends calling me and just asking me on a weekend, like do you want to go out for coffee?

Ash :

Like let me just take you out. I had a friend that I hadn't spoken to in so long who messaged me and was like how can I help my mom's over? Do you want me to cook some food? And I was like no, you know, don't worry about it Like my mom's here. And she actually cooked I think it was maybe three dishes, and just dropped it off at the house, maybe not asking and just doing.

Ash :

Yeah, just do it. And it's a lot also for the person who's caring for the sick person, because it was a lot for my mum. So with the place in the Cancer Comprehensive Centre that offers all the support it also extends to the family members that are caring for them, and so mum was going in for counselling. Oh, that's so good yeah mum went in for, I think, three sessions of counselling, and that was good for her, because she needed to talk to someone.

Chrystal :

Yeah.

Ash :

Because I cannot imagine having to support your daughter through something like that. Oh yeah, that just gives me yeah, the two of you are mums. I have no idea how that would feel.

Chrystal :

I think you'd prefer, it was you, the fear of losing a child anyways, regardless but obviously cancer as well. It's traumatising and heartbreaking.

Rose Oates:

I love that there's those services out there that you've said that there's heaps Cancer Council offers so much that's so good to know yeah.

Chrystal :

So I had a question before and I sorry I didn't ask, but you mentioned that you went through everything privately. Yeah, If you went through the system publicly, is the wait time like humongous for it and do you get seen Like do you just die from cancer because you don't get seen, Like what, what is that? Or you don't really know, I don't actually know.

Ash :

To be honest, I wouldn't be able to tell you, but what I found was that, sitting at a private clinic, like at a private at the Ivy Suite at the Cancer Comprehensive Centre, I remember looking around and there were no young people around me. Everyone was old, everyone was older, and I sat there thinking what the hell, man, how did I get this so early? And there's no one else around me? So I actually asked one of the nurses there and, bless her, she had a really good conversation with me and she actually told me, ash, the reason why you don't see that many is that because most people your age don't have such extensive cover that covers like cancer treatments and everything People probably can't afford it.

Ash :

Correct. And so there you would.

Rose Oates:

you know, it's not that you're the only person who at this age, but they're not going through private they're not going through private A lot of younger people would be going through the public system not even thinking, Because when I was from maybe 20 to 30, my insurance probably wasn't that high yeah you just get the twin share because, like me and Craig were together and we just plotted along yeah and then yeah.

Chrystal :

But we have this same issue with like. We spoke about this on a recent podcast about like psychology sessions being so expensive. It's the same thing with like this kind of thing, like when you're needing treatment. Correct the actual financial amount you may not be able to cover.

Ash :

Yeah, the only reason why I have always had an excess cover, like an extra cover, is because I started in Australia as an international student and when I registered with Medibank you have to have a certain amount of cover, blah, blah blah. And throughout my life in Malaysia I've always had health insurance, private health care. That is something that's really big for my dad. You have to have private health care. So when I sent him the little list when I moved over from being on a student visa to a permanent resident visa, I was like which one am I going for?

Rose Oates:

And he picked so I had nothing to do. That's lucky, right yeah?

Ash :

So dad had picked what I was going to take and I'm lucky I'm lucky that you know everything fell into place in that sense.

Chrystal :

Because I do wonder, like what is the wait time, if you were to go public, yeah, the public system, yeah the public system.

Rose Oates:

Yeah, I don't think that. Obviously, if it was serious, they're going to, you know, let anything happen to anyone.

Chrystal :

I just saw my mum's friend during COVID time. She actually died from bowel cancer because they weren't doing any surgeries or she couldn't do any testing Like there was, just it got delayed, delayed, delayed, and then the next minute she passed away and it was, I know, during COVID time. But I always think now about what? About people who can't afford these kind of services?

Rose Oates:

Yeah, I often think about just people not getting things checked. Like it doesn't matter what cancer, what you know.

Ash :

Whatever it is.

Rose Oates:

Legal. It is Like, if you're not sure, if in doubt, check it out. And I think like, even having been, after I had Esme, I ended up with an infection that I nearly went septic. That's another day, another story for another day. But I got told oh yeah, no worries, you can go to your trip in Kalbarri, and I reckon I nearly nearly had to be airlifted back to Perth. So it's, and I had been pushing for weeks and weeks with the doctor.

Chrystal :

You knew something was wrong.

Rose Oates:

I went to three different doctors who were saying you're just stressed you know, not feeling well because you're a new mum and there's just things like that. Like, if you've got a gut feeling that something's not right, check it out. If you aren't happy with what a doctor's saying, you can go for a second opinion, even if you're young. Listen to what Ash is saying here. Excuse me, that is all good.

Ash :

Push. It's your body, so you know that something's not right. Yeah and push for.

Chrystal :

you need to advocate for your own self, but I feel like, as a woman anyways, any kind of lump, like I understand that a lot of us have, like you know, lumpy breasts. What did they tell me that I had like fatty?

Rose Oates:

juicy breasts.

Chrystal :

I had a lump and I think I poked it too much that I made it sore. And then I was like but it's sore. And she's like but have you been poking it? And I was like yeah, but anyways, I think, like any kind of lump you should like if you're feeling unsure about it go and get it checked, but at least you checked it and someone could like go, you know what?

Rose Oates:

No, that's normal, it's not normal. But if you're just going to leave it there like that's actually risking your life, so definitely it's anything in general.

Chrystal :

Yeah, I feel like definitely, as women, we push everything aside.

Rose Oates:

We've got other things to do. When we push everything aside, we're like oh, I'm working.

Chrystal :

I don't have time, I can't get a day off, or whatever. We do definitely need to prioritise ourselves and the amount of people I've said like have you had that mole checked?

Rose Oates:

And they're like oh no, and I'm like that looks A little bit festy.

Chrystal :

That looks like it needs to be checked. It's just getting into a mole scan clinic and then getting on change and letting one scan your body and just all of the things Like we just need to prioritise ourselves your health is everything, and without it you've got nothing.

Rose Oates:

Yeah, so it is worth getting it checked. And I always say yes, feel it on the first. Yes, but you know what? Feel it every night. Yeah, all the time. Feel it whenever you're in the shower.

Chrystal :

Get someone else to feel them.

Rose Oates:

Anything shower, get someone else to feel them, anything get your new partner husband to give copper fuel. They're not gonna say no. No, they'll never say no.

Ash :

I'll be like do you just want?

Chrystal :

to know that we're looking properly for the right thing, though do you just want to check my breast ash?

Rose Oates:

do you want to leave us with any parting advice that you could give to survivors like getting, like diagnosed early, anything to impart your wisdom?

Ash :

I think the only thing that I can and that I want to say is early detection changes everything. It's key. If something is not right, get yourself checked. You are the only person who will know if something's not right, no one else can feel it for you. And if you are about to start your journey with chemotherapy, I will not lie it is going to be the single most horrific thing you will ever do. But you will come out on the other side. You might lose your hair. You might not, If you know, because usually the oncologist will tell you if you're about to lose your hair or not. If the drug will make you lose your hair, Go get your eyebrows tattooed, guys. And ladies.

Ash :

Yeah, Everybody Actually yeah everyone. Don't walk around without eyebrows, it's a bit scary.

Chrystal :

But you never got to that point, right, you tattooed before she tattooed.

Ash :

I tattooed right after my first chemotherapy.

Chrystal :

And they look great. By the way, I would do that too.

Ash :

Because I didn't know how to draw my own eyebrows on yeah.

Rose Oates:

And take up the services they sound like they're some amazing services and obviously, all these services would be available in all the different states.

Ash :

Correct, correct, all the different states. And Cancer Council has so much Yep, they've got counselling sessions, they've got the Look Good, feel, feel good. I think I'm pretty sure it's through cancer council as well. They do so much work with patients and with families as well. And if you need, if you need a network, there is a Facebook page called Cancer Chicks Australia okay that you can join.

Rose Oates:

I love that. We'll make sure that we take all these details from you as well. So we'll put them in the show notes, just in case.

Chrystal :

But also too cancer also gets men.

Ash :

Yes, absolutely.

Chrystal :

This is another thing that we also need. Breast cancer gets men. Yes, absolutely.

Rose Oates:

So if you've got breasts everybody, then check your breasts, yes.

Ash :

Absolutely yeah, it's very important.

Chrystal :

Yeah, it's very important.

Ash :

Yeah. So Cancer Chicks Australia is for any female going through any sort of cancer, whether you've just been diagnosed, whether you're a survivor, and it is such an amazing, brilliant network of women that are there for you at every second of the day.

Rose Oates:

And it's probably good to have a community that knows exactly what you're going through. Yes, so you can have friends and family, but to have someone that's either been through it, is going through it or is, on the other side, correct To be able to ask questions.

Ash :

It's very different, and I remember just posting stuff on there at like 12 midnight and someone already answered. So it's such a great network. They are amazingly supportive women. I've got two super close friends that I've made from the network, one of who I met recently when I went over to Sydney.

Chrystal :

Yeah, ash, we have absolutely loved having you on. Obviously, rose, and I know you quite well. We've had this chat, but I think it was really important to share with everybody at Bearing it All. Thank you so much for having me, guys, and just check your breasties.

Rose Oates:

Yes, Check your titties, your tatas, your boyfriends boobies, get them to check, them Check them every bloody shower. Just give them a good loofah, touch them. If it doesn't feel right, get them checked out. Look after your health. But we are so like honoured to have you on for you taking the time today. We will pop all of Ash's details and all of the recommendations she has shared with us today in the show notes. But in the meantime, always take care of yourselves and take care of each other.

Chrystal :

Bye Ash, See you later. Bye.

People on this episode

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Chrystal Russell

Host
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Rose Oates

Host